Do Anti-Mosque Protests Breed Terrorism?
by Jeffrey Miron on August 23rd, 2010
27 Comments
Islamic radicals are seizing on protests against a planned Islamic community center near Manhattan’s Ground Zero and anti-Muslim rhetoric elsewhere as a propaganda opportunity and are stepping up anti-U.S. chatter and threats on their websites.
One jihadist site vowed to conduct suicide bombings in Florida to avenge a threatened Koran burning, while others predicted an increase in terrorist recruits as a result of such actions.
“By Allah, the wars are heated and you Americans are the ones who…enflamed it,” says one such posting. “By Allah you will be the first to taste its flames.”
Categories: My Blog


Brian
Is it the anti-Mosque protests or the freedom of speech that breeds terrorism? Should these people protesting peacefully be silent because someone threatens violence in retaliation? That’s rhetorical of course, I’m hoping on a Libertarian site the answer is no.
Cliff Nelson
Let’s say I protest that you intend to exercise your right to build a home in a certain neighborhood. And I recruit people to make any exercise of your right futile. Would you be upset? Angry?
I think a distinction must be made between exercising free speech rights and action that is intended to obstruct another from exercising their rights.
I think this better frame the issue – it is an appearance of deprivation of rights which unfortunately often leads to violence. That is human nature.
Jess Austin
By Allah, I’m going to start prefacing every statement I make with “by Allah”.
On the other hand, by Allah, those cretins who think free speech begins and ends with making other people’s lives miserable with bigotry, richly deserve the beatings they have coming. By Allah, just like the morons from Westboro Baptist.
Abu Hatem
I think what Jeff is trying to say is that the perception of the U.S. people and government being opposed to the Islamic religion helps terrorist recruiters gain followers, especially home grown followers.
The Center on Strategic and International Studies did a huge study about 6 months ago by Rick Ozzie Nelson, a former counterterrorism official, where he found that the one thing all homegrown members of al-Qaeda had in common is the perception that Islam was under attack by the U.S. Not the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, or the war in Afghanistan, or the humiliation of the Arab world in particular – but only all of these things in the context that they fed into the argument that the U.S. was at war with Islam.
Brian
Abu, I think the most important word in that statement you just made might be “perception”. No one can control how what they say will be perceived by the listener. I just read a piece that stated CAIR wished George Bush would speak out in support for the GZ Mosque because of the effort he made as President to stress we were not at war with Islam. Was that reality at the time or just political expediency now? I seem to recall what a vocal critic CAIR was of Bush during his Presidency because the war on terror was being perceived as a war on Islam. I know that the Libertarian stance is US meddling in the middle east is a contributing factor of terrorism. Even though I’m a Libertarian that is one area where I differ in opinion. I think there is just evil in the world no matter what we do or what are policies are. I don’t think anyone should censor what they say for fear of how it may be perceived, especially by a group of unbalanced, overly sensitive radicals.
I don’t believe the majority of protestors are attempting to obstruct the construction of the mosque through legal maneuvering such as eminent domain, although that was popular at the beginning and some people are still hoping to use it as a strategy. The majority of the people (if you take them at their word) just want the builders of the mosque and community center to demonstrate a little sensitivity.
As for people protesting the right of others to build a house or a business it happens everyday in this country. It goes unnoticed most of the time and most of the time it does make me angry, there’s a reason I’m a Liberatarian. I hate eminent domain, I hate neighborhood covenants. I am dead set against any of those tricks being used against the mosque. I think it depends on the circumstance, sure if this happened everyday for every building being built it would get old, but just the fact that this issue is causing this kind of reaction should say something. It’s about more then bigotry. If not then why not protest every mosque being built?
So I guess the question remains? Do the mosque protests breed terrorism? I’m a simple minded guy and terrorism is a complicated question but the answer to me is still simple. No. It might give them an excuse, it might even fan the flames a little more than normal but radical views are what breed terrorism.
dfvazan
Bigoted cretins akin to the Westboro Baptists? Come on Jess, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and Daisy Khan aren’t that bad.
I’ll buy the argument that our military adventurism did and continues to stoke pre-existing Islamic terrorism. And perhaps the anti-mosque protests do the same. But there is a clear distinction between the merits of prolonged and questionable aggression abroad and free speech at home regardless of its effects on terrorist recruitment. Just as libertarians embrace freedom of religion, so they should freedom of speech… http://reason-contest.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html
Jess Austin
Hahaha dfvazan, you know very well to whom I referred. I’m no fan of the Imam, but it wasn’t him.
Considering the many problems evident in our system of government, the equal protection of law is one of the few things it has to recommend over anarchy. (I say that even knowing what a fiction “equal protection” is, whether we’re talking crack-vs.-cocaine or Joe Nacchio. I guess it’s more of an aspiration than a fact.) I’ve heard quite a bit of conservative blowhard backpedaling over the last two weeks, but I recall well that they were all for eminent-domaining or preservation-boarding or whatever statist overreach came to mind, before they got the latest opinion polls on the property rights of Muslims. Then we started hearing about free speech, after they realized how much they’d underestimated the decency of the hoi polloi. When the set-up is so baldly “USA vs. Islam”, most Americans start wondering about the rule of law, and what “us” and “them” really means in this context. And it’s not as though the other side gets a pass on the fake “go, team!” stuff either.
I’m all for free speech, and for free religion, and free love, and free guns, etc. Basically everything free but a free lunch (which is kind of what you’re looking for if you want to stop anyone from building on her own bought-and-paid-for land). I’m not credulous, however. I know that the first amendment is the first refuge of the vile and loose-lipped (e.g., Dr. Laura or the aforementioned Westboro Baptist). Sure, everyone is free to broadcast their hate and fear to the world. They should expect then to be treated like misanthropic cowards. If you’re going to act and speak in a vile fashion, does it matter whether you justify that with the Bill or Rights or the hadith?
dfvazan
Politicians on both sides have expediently used the GZM for personal gain. I’m less concerned with politcians behaving like politicians than the maligning of legitimate protests against a mosque’s controversial location.
You characterize GMZ opponents pretty harshly, but their rhetoric and objections don’t come close to this caricature. Most of the protesters, as you pointed out, reasonably understand the Imam’s right to build, reject eminent domain to block it and are simply airing their opinions. Hate-filled bigotry is hardly an accurate description of their views.
Considering how relatively innocuous the protests have been, suggesting that we should be wary of their effects on terrorist recruitment seems foolish. But even if they were as despicable as the Westboro baptists, cowering in fear of hypersensitive Muslim outrage is no way to run a free society. Whether it’s a cartoon of Mohammed or questioning the location of a mosque, why are the threats of religious zealots considered relevant? If opposing a mosque near GZ makes us a nation of “misanthropic cowards” in the eyes of Al Quaeda, I think I can live with that.
Jess Austin
Politicians…
Yeah, yeah, politicians, what you said. Demagogues, rabble-rousers, etc.
You characterize [mosque] opponents pretty harshly, but their rhetoric and objections don’t come close to this caricature. Most of the protesters, as you pointed out, reasonably understand the Imam’s right to build, reject eminent domain to block it and are simply airing their opinions. Hate-filled bigotry is hardly an accurate description of their views.
They tried statist coercion first, and if it was still on the table they’d still be gunning for it. Why is it that we can condemn the media gasbags and politicians, but not the throngs (probably more like dozens, but I don’t want to argue that point now) of useful idiots who line up behind them (actually in front, since no important person really wants to go to jail if things take a turn)? If the purpose is merely to communicate some fatuous sense of indignation at the idea of a mosque several blocks from the WTC site, at what point will that communication be sufficient? When construction begins? After they’ve held their first worship services? At the beginning of our upcoming war with Iran? A decade into that war? We have a name for someone who stands outside a church or synagogue haranguing and cursing those who worship within. It’s called a bigot, and civilized people don’t care to know why a bigot chooses to be a bigot.
…even if they were as despicable as the Westboro baptists, cowering in fear of hypersensitive Muslim outrage is no way to run a free society. Whether it’s a cartoon of Mohammed or questioning the location of a mosque, why are the threats of religious zealots considered relevant?
Here we’re really talking past each other. I don’t care about the feelings of Al Quaeda; they’re cockroaches. I don’t care about the threats of Al Quaeda; hot dogs have killed more people. In fifty years all Muslims will publicly revile AQ in the way that half of them do privately today. I’m sure that many who defend the mosque do so out of fear, but that’s not why a libertarian would defend the mosque. A libertarian would defend the mosque because it will sit on private property, and statists attempt to prevent its construction. A libertarian would defend the mosque because no one should be afraid to worship, and the type of rhetoric we’ve heard recently has in the past been a prelude to bricks through stained glass and burning crosses. A libertarian would defend the mosque because this is the USA, and we were all immigrants once. A libertarian would defend the mosque because she roots for the right result, not for the right team.
Then a libertarian might well draw a picture of Mohammed. That analogy doesn’t work as well for the bigots as you seem to think. Drawing a picture threatens no one in and of itself. Building a church, a temple, or a mosque threatens no one in and of itself. It is the reaction of the emotional mob to these innocuous acts (or to what these acts represent to their personal sense of tribal morality) that harms those involved, and our society itself. So long as those reactions persist, we must keep drawing and keep building. (Call me a pessimist, but I think that means we have to keep drawing and building forever.)
Considering how relatively innocuous the protests have been, suggesting that we should be wary of their effects on terrorist recruitment seems foolish.
Predicting the actions of insane religious nuts might be difficult, but those of modern acculturated Muslims are easier to imagine. Fundies have been telling them for years that a universal freedom-oriented society holds nothing for them; they need the insular tyrannical bosom of a fundamentalist sharia-based caliphate to serve their needs. And now Americans are telling them that freedom thing isn’t really for them; they should go back to Michigan or at least to Egypt. We didn’t really mean it with that Bill of Rights thing; if you kneel in the wrong direction when you pray it doesn’t apply to you. This gross hypocrisy might not inspire everyone to strap on the C4, but it won’t hurt the latest AQ fund drive.
dfvzazan
This discussion has veered horribly off course. The original post insinuated there is a direct relationship between the anti-GMZ protests and terrorist recruitment. It wasn’t about the protesters’ potential for bigoted malice and it wasn’t about private property or 2nd amendment rights.
I tried to be faithful to the original spirit of the post, but you’ve turned this into a dissertation about the libertarian duty to support the GMZ. I don’t disagree with any of your points regarded why libertarians should support the mosque. Unfortunately, that was never a point of contention. I do disagree with the huge leap you make from peaceful protestors to mosque-burning, Muslim-deporting mob. But, again, that wasn’t the issue here.
Until the GMZ opponents start violating tenets of libertarianism (2nd amendment protections, private property rights, non-agression, etc.) then they deserve the same support the Mohammed cartoonists enjoyed regardless of how much it inflames the “Arab street.” If they in fact do flout libertarian principles by legal or physical force, then they no longer deserve a voice among us. Your conviction of the protesters based on what they MIGHT do is unjust and plain wrong.
Jess Austin
There’s a giant double standard on display here. I find risible the idea that I would “support” the anti-religion bigots who are currently embarrassing themselves several blocks from the WTC site. No one threatens them. No one oppresses them. They go home to warm beds every night, secure in their right to ignorance and viciousness in the land of the most powerful military ever. They have no need of Voltaire or me or anyone else.
Why is it that even among libertarians, disagreement (which, clearly, I have) is automatically assumed to imply a thirst for violent repression, at the hands of the state or the fundies or whomever (which thirst, I assure you, I don’t have)? If disagreement with idiocy is “unjust and plain wrong”, I don’t want to be right. It isn’t surprising that these shrinking violets would be offended at being called out for their bigotry; they’re also offended by the construction of a house of worship. That offense, however, occurs between their ears; the imam and I can hardly be held responsible. I’m just speaking my mind here, which gosh it seems like there might be something about that in the Bill of Rights. Don’t you think some Muslims are mildly offended by the idea that they shouldn’t build their house of worship on land they own, solely because of the fashion in which they worship? I don’t see them silencing anyone.
I have considered the two sides of this issue, and I “support” those who want to build the mosque. Since I don’t share their religious convictions, I won’t donate to their building fund (which fund is said now to stand at $9,000, calling somewhat into question the need to mobilize against construction; have you seen NYC union construction wages?), but I might donate to a legal defense fund, should the statists make that necessary. All of the protesters deserve a brisk punch in the nose; the moment they’re on the receiving end of worse violence than that, I’ll reconsider whether they need my support, such as it is.
Actually, now I see how the protesters and the cartoonists are similar, beyond their trivial and irrelevant “opposition” to Islam. I was never a great Andres Serrano fan, so I wouldn’t have been a great religious insult aficionado in this case either, except that the fundies started assassinating people. So, in order for me to “support” the anti-mosque bigots, someone is going to have to start bumping them off, as a result of their opposition to the mosque. I certainly don’t want that to happen, since I would have to hold my nose while supporting these troglodytes, but I concede the possibility, remote as it is.
dfvazan
So let me get this straight: a vicious, irrational mob of bigots is blocking the construction plans of an innocent, unsuspecting, pure-intentioned flock of worshipers. That’s essentially how you’ve characterized the two parties, no? I’m disappointed to see you fall victim to such trite rhetorical flimflam. The most obnoxious statists have been bludgeoning their opponents with this smear tactic long enough that I had hoped its transparency would be more obvious. Alas, the old reliable strategy still works: brand the enemy as racist, violent and ignorant then await marginalization.
Well let’s make a few things clear. The opponents of the GZM have no qualms with building a mosque per se. In fact I would venture a guess that most of them are exceedingly tolerant of Islam within the US. But of course this house of worship isn’t being built just anywhere; it’s within shouting distance of the worst Islamist attack in American history. For many Americans, particularly those closest to the victims, this is a premeditated and insensitive provocation that unnecessarily opens old wounds. Is it not possible to oppose this mosque while harboring no ill will towards any other American mosque or even Islam? Is there a chance that these “prejudiced rubes” can distinguish between any other Muslim structure and a mosque deliberately planned by an Imam who refuses to condemn Hamas and equitably indicts the US in Islamist terror? And considering the project’s controversy even the most naïve and tolerant of us may find the Imam’s unwillingness to voluntarily disclose his funding suspicious and (excuse the pun) in bad faith.
This is not just any mosque and it’s not just any Imam. Given that, slandering all opponents of the mosque as bigoted, vicious, ignorant oppressors seems not only inappropriate but also a bit credulous and uncritical. “Support” whomever you want. If you can “hold your nose” and endorse a group with questionable intentions and such clumsy callousness, be my guest. As for myself, I will “support” the protestors as I would a boycott on a business of disrepute. Their methods of discouraging financiers and labor unions through negative publicity is well within the boundaries of “fair play” by libertarian standards.
Jess Austin
With that off my chest, let me return to the topic of “a direct relationship between the anti-GMZ [sic] protests and terrorist recruitment.” If the protests have any effect, that effect certainly wouldn’t be to hurt recruitment or fundraising. (I don’t predict any revelations along the lines of, “Oh, Americans are exactly the hateful hypocrites that the imam always said they were, so I guess we should stop bombing them.”) So, the question then is, do the protests have any effect on terrorism?
Recent decades support the proposition that Muslims have a greater tendency to terrorism than other groups marginalized by the West, so it would be a mistake to say that Muslim terrorism is wholly caused by anything in the West. They have the potential absent any action on our part. Can we then say that nothing we do affects the level of Muslim terrorism? Optimists on both ends of the fake political spectrum would disagree, whether they support carpet-bombing, nation-building, apologizing, or whatever. But then, the statists are always on the lookout for more tasks for the state to take on, aren’t they? I don’t assume that any action will have any particular effect, solely because it’s included in an appropriations bill.
Empirically, there was no Muslim terrorism against interests of the USA in the 19th century (some piracy, but I assume the motivations for that were piratical rather than evangelical), some in the 20th century, and so far quite a bit in the 21st century. Since our policies with respect to Islam varied a great deal over that period, while terrorism increased fairly monotonically, I conclude, provisionally, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that our actions don’t affect the general level of terrorism in any important way. Heartbreaking, I know, for the anti-religionists and their opponents, but there it is.
dfvazan
To borrow your phrase, we’re talking past each other again. I wasn’t looking for an answer to the question, “does anti-GZM protests increase terrorist recruitment?” My position is who cares? And that’s why I referred to the cartoons. Just as we should draw frivilous pictures of Mohammed despite Muslim outrage and threats abroad, we should engage in any other activity we feel passionate about irrespective of said threats. Censoring ourselves out of fear is the first step toward muzzling free speech.
Jess Austin
Sorry, I misunderstood you again. I’m curious now. Why do you feel passionate about funny pictures of Mohammed? I think they’re important solely because of how radical opponents of modernity have reacted to them (this is consistent with my feeling that Piss Christ was never important), but it seems you’re thinking of something else as well.
I may have some inkling of the source of your passion for preventing mosque construction in southern Manhattan. You object to the particular clergy involved, and you mistrust the sources of the $9,000 in the building fund. You object to the location, several blocks and around the corner from the WTC site. Is that all? Would you abide the mosque of a different, patriotically-American Muslim cleric? Would it be OK if Warren Buffett was paying for the whole thing? Would it be OK if the mosque were five blocks away? Ten blocks? Ten miles?
Do you expect all those opposed to construction to share this precise set of preferences? Do you doubt that some people think all mosques in the USA should be burned to the ground? Do you doubt that some people think all churches in the USA should be burned to the ground? (I’m confident that we would all disagree with the latter two viewpoints!) On the basis of what universal principle do we say that you are right and those who have a different preference with respect to others’ worship in their neighborhood or nation are wrong?
Cliff Nelson
Wait a second … what I heard the protestors saying was “”this will not happen,” and “the mosque will not be built.” That seems more like a threat than a peaceful protest.
dfvzazan
Oops. I wrote 2nd amend, meant 1st.
Cliff Nelson
Is it possible to distinguish the anti-mosque protest from anti-Muslim action?
A man has been arrested on charges he repeatedly stabbed a New York City cab driver after asking the driver if he was Muslim and the driver said yes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/25/cab-driver-attacked-stabbed-new-york-muslim_n_694091.html
Brian
I like the Westboro Baptist comparison. For a good contrast on how rational people handle a problem like this. When the Westboro Baptist church started protesting GIs funerals a group of motorcyclists started the Patriot Guard Riders. Check out their website – http://www.patriotguard.org/
They don’t mention Westboro specifically but that’s why they formed. They stress no party affilitation and more notably no violence. Seems like that’s how rational people handle a situation they don’t care for.
Brian
Cliff, are you implying that one man stabbing a cab driver speaks for all anti-mosque protestors? Aren’t you making the bigots arguement?
Cliff Nelson
Absolutely not, but I do think that the rhetoric of the protestors enables conduct that stems from our worst instincts. Just as the actions of 9/11 activated and enabled instincts that we are better off “leaving off.”
So I think we should be consistent with a message of respect for rights and when actions infringe on rights we should look to disable to conduct not inflame it.
My concern about the mosque protests is that they are inflaming false beliefs.
dfvzazan
Jess Austin said, “Do you expect all those opposed to construction to share [your] precise set of preferences?”
Not quite, but I do think there are some basic points on which most reasonable people of either side can compromise. Up to this point, the leaders of the project have yielded to absolutely none of the protesters’ requests. That’s not exactly an auspicious tone of tolerant dialogue for a group claiming to “build [cultural] bridges.” There are certainly ways to make the mosque construction more palatable to the public and resuscitate this Imam’s suspicious image. No one is expecting him to be pure as the driven snow, but when a “moderate Muslim” can not even bring himself to unequivocally condemn and distance himself from organizations, such as Hamas, I think any rational American may find this objectionable. Just as there are folks who blindly support the mosque, there are those who oppose the mosque with little regard for facts; neither have logic on their side. It’s highly disingenuous to demonize opponents as bigots using such broad strokes when there are clearly valid complaints that don’t pivot on a universal system of what is “right” and “wrong.”
Jess Austin
I’m sure it’s unfair for me to point at this report.
At this point, anti-religionists have several options. Either the linked anti-mosque protesters are somehow different than those under discussion here, or the planned mosque in the link is somehow the same as the one under discussion here. I’d recommend the latter option, as it has the virtue of consistency with reality. That is, the organizers and clergy of the Tennessee mosque have no more relation to terrorism than those on Park Place. There is no evidence for such a connection, and no official investigation under way to collect such evidence. The reactions to the two mosques are due to qualities of the protesters not qualities of the protested. QED: bigotry. In a nation of laws, the would-be mosque-builders are guilty of nothing other than offending people whose profession it is to take offense on behalf of the bigots who pay them.
Please note that I myself have been guilty of bigotry on multiple occasions, and regularly visit and break bread with many others whose bigotry is manifest on a regular basis. I don’t hate the sinner, just the sin. I find that until we recognize the existence of evil, even in so rudimentary a way as calling it by its own name, we are ill-equipped to combat it. Those whose morality is personalized and tribal may not appreciate this point, however. For some people, “us” and “them” are far more salient categories than universal ones like “good” and “evil”.
It’s highly disingenuous to demonize opponents as bigots using such broad strokes when there are clearly valid complaints that don’t pivot on a universal system of what is “right” and “wrong.”
I may be misinterpreting your last sentence. I read it as sort of a nationalist/race duty/Wahhabist apologetics, when perhaps it was meant as a bold Nietzschean condemnation of outmoded slave morality. (I also disagree with the latter reading, but it’s much cooler!)
dfvazan
Explain to me how your logical conclusion is different from the pundits who smear all Tea Partiers bigots because there were allegedlya few racist buffoons in the crowd, or the alarmist nativists who label all illegal immigrants violent criminals because a border patrol agent or citizen is murdered during a crossing. Surely you disagree with their faulty reasoning. Why then is it so difficult to distinguish between isolated acts of violence or anti-Muslim bigotry and legitimate opposition to a specific mosque’s location?
Cliff Nelson
Maybe the answer is distinguishing between legitimate protest and illegitimate protest. To do that I suggest asking: Is the group protesting that they have been denied an otherwise recognized right? If not, what are they protesting?
Jess Austin
Even though Cliff is exactly right (and much more eloquent and brief than I!), I have to point out that in this response you took the first (IMHO unlikely) option: “the linked anti-mosque protesters are somehow different than those under discussion here”. This claim requires support, which has not been provided.
The goal of the allegedly different parties is the same: to prevent the building of a mosque. You might contend that their motivations are different, but they are not different enough to matter. One group is just a bunch of rednecks (hey, me too!), and the other are cultured urbane cosmopolitans who just dislike one particular imam (who has never been charged with any crime and in fact has worked with multiple Presidential administrations and written multiple books about how Islam and the West may coexist and denounced 9/11 and is hated by Al Qaeda for those reasons). That is not a difference, in a nation of laws. If anyone has evidence that this man is a criminal or terrorist, I’m sure at least one of the dozens of police agencies with which we’ve been blessed will take an interest. Until then (actually, given a congregation that wants to worship, even after then) opposition is not legitimate. It is of course everyone’s right to speak, and in the unlikely event that right ever requires defense we’ll all be right there, but until then I’ll be speaking my mind too.
When the goal is bigoted, all those who share that goal are tarred by it, whether arsonists or not. The Tea Party, near as I could tell, was originally about the government spending less money. That is a legitimate goal, even if some people come to it via racial animus. Those who would wage a quixotic culture war against the Islamic world should find ways to do so that don’t directly contradict our Constitution’s guarantee of freedom of religion.
Tony Morgano
Please support my petition to honor the victims of 9-11-01, by asking Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf to move the proposed Islamic Cultural Center and Mosque from the shadow of our hallowed Ground Zero.
http://www.honor911victims.com/
Thank you and may God bless you.
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